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 » 接下來躲到債券就安心了嗎? « StockQ 理財筆記

接下來躲到債券就安心了嗎?


這是從我自己的筆記簿及在MQ中PO的文所整理結錄出來的,供大家參考。

話說,有兩隻跳蚤,藍藍與綠綠,他們寄宿在一隻兔子身上但他們並不知道。他們一天到晚在打架,而且水火不容,藍藍他說:『爾父(Your father)已經執政了數十年,你綠綠是什麼東西阿?』結果綠綠就很不爽的說…『阿不然你爸爸(Your father again)我現在在執政,你還活在過去美好的時光阿?』所以,兩個人就一直吵一直吵…今天起床藍藍想辦法整綠綠,晚上要睡覺前綠綠就會想辦法扳回一城….就這樣一天過一天…也過了好久了。
突然有一天,藍藍與綠綠發現,怎麼地震了,於是他們就想辦法往上跳(跳蚤一定是用跳得),突然之間他們發現…我的天!怎麼有這麼大的怪物在我們的地上,原來我們一直住在怪物(兔子)的身上….

兩隻跳蚤絕望的吶喊,原來世界上不僅僅只有他們,原來還有其他的『怪物』。但是因為先前用力跳,所以已經沒有力了,也只好就繼續住在『怪物』的身上了….正當他們慢慢接受他們是住在一個巨大無比的怪物身上這個事實之後,有一天他們發現,怎麼這支怪物一直動一直動阿,真是莫名其妙。有了先前的經驗,他們決定要先養精蓄銳,想辦法跳出這隻怪獸的外面。這個時候終於到了,有一天他們覺得自己的體能狀況極佳,一定可以一飛沖天逃離怪獸的魔掌,於是他們奮力一跳!發現….魔術師!這什麼東西阿!另一個更大隻的怪獸(魔術師)抓著這隻怪獸(兔子)的耳朵,還有另外一群超大隻的怪獸在那裡鼓掌….終於…藍藍與綠綠知道,世界上不僅僅只有他們兩隻跳蚤,有好多更大的怪獸在外面的世界等著他們。

好了…寓言故事說完了….
但是我們可以從這裡學到什麼東西呢?還記不記得我之前在MQ寫過近半年來的市場分析?這『半年』就是這兩隻跳蚤。而我們要分析不要忘記要分析『兔子』跟『魔術師』之間的關係…也就是說,分析的週期從『半年』,接著是『一二十年』,再來就是『一整個世紀』。如果太專注在這半年,很容易根這兩隻有情有義的跳蚤一樣….見樹不見林。

還記得我之前在MQ提到的近半年來的市場互動情形嗎?如果忘記,回去看一下….
基本上,我只用了6個月的週期來談,我們發現,債券的殖利率一直上升,因此對於固定收益、利率敏感的類股都不利。我們先看下圖,如果我們把週期放大到10個月,我們會發現什麼事情?我們發現,整個債券的價格正在做頭,準備要往下掉….Well, that’s all!

半年來債券與殖利率

掉到什麼程度呢?誰知道?但是,如果把整個週期再往外擴張,一直擴張到1980年代,我們發現什麼事情?我們發現,自從1980年代初期,債券的價格就持續往上走,一直到今天,我們發現他已經在測試這個趨勢線了。情勢按照這樣發展下去,其實是有可能跌破趨勢線的,要注意的是,這個趨勢線維持了長達27年之久….所以一旦跌破,可能短期會回測,但是如果沒有意外,這時候的支撐線就變成壓力線了,如果測試失敗,趨勢就正式形成…債券的價格要走下坡了…

1980年以來債券走勢圖

好…我們繼續把範圍擴大,我們從1880年代開始看,
我們會發現,政府的公債價格變化,有兩次上升兩次下降。
而每一次上升的週期大概都維持了二十到三十年,時間的巧合告訴我們什麼?
債券的價格可能要開始走下坡了,而殖利率將會逐漸上升。我們看下面的圖就知道了….

1870年以來債券走勢圖

告訴大家這件事情是說…不能只當跳蚤,當兔子也不夠(被人玩),
要就要看得夠遠,全盤都看出來。至於未來二十年的趨勢債券可能是走下坡。
也因此,如果我們去對照十年前常常會不準是有原因的….因為我們的『Time position』對錯了!

另外…德國的債券、日本的債券、跟世界債券指數都做頭了…

小心…小心…

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謝謝大大的詳細解說
總覺得讀您的文章是一種享受
^^

給幹大:

你分析的很精釆,我不得不佩服!

但這是純粹以技術面為出發點的分析,個人覺得值得參考,但不一定準確!

個人覺得,個人會比較在意出現轉折的時間,及那段時間發生了什麼事!

你張貼的這張100年的分析圖,應該是美國的情形。

一般而言,經濟強勁發展,股市會大好,債市會下跌。

以圖中所示債市第二次大幅下跌而言,個人單純認為這是因為第二次世界大戰後,

美國經濟強勁發展,所以債市下跌。

以目前美國的情形而言,此種榮景應不易再覆現,所以債市大空頭論,可能有點矯枉過正。

不預設立場,依市場反應,在關鍵時刻,指出正確的關係,做出正確的反應,又偷借用你的話!

淺溥意見,提供參考  10賭11輸之賭老師不負責言論

哈哈…賭老師,
我也不知道這樣對不對,但是從技術面觀察的確有其好處。
您說的『轉折原因』其實往往是『事後才來找』的…
我們把時間回到那個時候,如果有人跟您說…
股市要大漲,債券要大跌了,人家會怎麼說?
大概會說…你見鬼了!才剛打完世界大戰不是?

其實技術分析都是從過去發生的事情去找規律,
在我看來其實跟化學也沒啥兩樣…
其實最重要的一件事情,今天我收到一封email,
我一個國外分析師的朋友,把我給他的圖(應該是第二張圖)放在報告中,
並列為『Chart of the Month』,他們就依此為交易…
當大家都依此交易的時候,他自然就會成真了…
也許若干年後(也許五十年吧!)又會有人說,
那是2010年代的時候發生什麼事情…現在機會已經不大了。

我不是一個狂熱的技術分析者,
事實上我買賣的依據只有一小部分是靠技術分析,
大部分都還是靠『想像』未來世界的樣子來投資長期的標的,
而我貼這個出來,也僅是提醒大家注意….
(不注意我也沒差)

我欣賞『金融心裡學』中的一句話:
圖形,他會自我實現….
而我,也欣賞馬克吐溫(Mark Twain)說的:『歷史重來不重演,但他有其規律性』
(History never repeats, but it does often rhyme.)

以上也僅供參考…我也不負責任。
(我媽媽說,如果說話要負責任,那誰還敢說話?)

幹大:

看著你附上的第二張10年的走勢圖,心中是有些不安!

如果這張圖的走勢不怕,最近可能會有大波動,呵呵!!

10賭11輸之睹老師胡言亂語

賭老師,
其實不是要危言聳聽,
但是我收到消息(我應該也有在MQ裡面PO,只是沒有人回應),
市場互動大師John Morphy昨天發出警告,
長達25年的債券牛市大概要結束了。
他的警告只比我晚幾天…

當然,其實我覺得這件事情也不是沒得救,
其實我們應該要適應這樣的環境,
然後指出正確的方向,並採取動作。

像我這樣不怕死的,會利用這個環境積極操作,
但是如果是保守一點的,至少不要以為股票跌了,
躲到債市去就沒事了。

所以葛螺絲的話不是沒有依據的,
我想他比許多人都還要清楚。
他們一般認為,結束了25年的牛市,
接下來大概也會是20-30年的熊市,
當然熊市也會有起起落落,不是跌個不停的。
我們假設他們說的沒錯,20-30年的熊市,
不就是一個人工作的期間嗎?
如果還傻傻的,以為債市很安全,只是報酬率低,
把錢隨便往裡面丟,你會發現這個人根本沒有錢可以退休。

這是我比較擔心的….萬一不發生就算了,如果真的發生了…
你想我在這樣的環境下提醒大家受到多少人的討厭,
就可以知道有多少人沒有辦法安心退休(假設我說的是對的)

再強調一次…歷史不會重演,但是有其規律性。
如果你要問我,上一次債市的空頭是因為世界大戰,那這一次呢?
Believe or not, 我會告訴你,是因為『日本經濟復甦』….

那請問投資型保單,不是債券就是股票基金,怎辦啊? 要躲到哪兒去呢?

maurice大大,
您的長線分析很精彩,給您和那兩隻跳蚤拍拍手。
但這個分析是針對美國國債,對於新興市場債的情形是否有所不同?
因為美元升息但新興債所屬央行大多是降息的,且新興債又有調升評等之利多。
請問新興市場債是否也開始轉空了呢?

复杂呀 。。

Y達,
基本上新興市場債券的走向跟美國的國債都差不多,但是波動幅度不大一樣。
但是最近的現象顯示,新興市場的債券被拋售….

次級房貸虧損波及整個債市,版主果然先知卓見!

maurice大大您好,
我是個投資觀察新手(真的很新!我根本就不是學這個的!),可是對於您的觀察報告分析非常有興趣,正在努力研讀你寫的文章!! 可是我有一個問題:為什麼這次的債市空頭是因為日本經濟復甦呢? 先在此謝謝您解決我的疑惑!

很好的文章,

請問幹大~

那所謂的高收益債的部份是否也會受到影響
個人觀查,高收益債跟股市的走勢有點相同.
若是債券跌,股市跌~
那要怎辦
定存是唯一出路嗎?

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